CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

I'm ready go tonight. There's a party, alright. We don't need the raisin for joy, oh yeah. Tick down to midnight.
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DHerder222
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by DHerder222 » 2 weeks ago

Woo, beat the final dungeon of Octopath. Ended up putting in a solid 75 hours.

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Delthazar
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Delthazar » 2 weeks ago

Going back to Tales of Berseria after about a month in Yakuza 0 feels super weird. At least in battle, I really wish Tales games played more like Yakuza games. Go figure. I didn't really expect that to happen, but here I am.

Maybe if I take player control off semi-auto and try out full manual, plus redo all the combo chains 'til they feel a little more logical and purposeful, I might get part of the way to where I want it to be eventually. Some of the right pieces are already there. The camera perspective and recenter button, a dedicated block button, combo chains assigned to face buttons - even vague relatives of Yakuza's heat mechanics are kinda here, sort of, in a somewhat rougher form.

But at least when controlling Velvet exclusively and especially on default settings, Berseria feels weightless and flighty compared to Yakuza 0. Tons of attacks are overanimated yet rarely feel particularly impactful. Awkward targeting and semi-auto pathfinding. I'm never completely sure which arte does what and why, or which artes combo into worthwhile chains, so all encounters inevitably become button-mashy almost instantly.

None of it really matters though 'cause everything I fight goes down super fast. Even bosses. Even bosses the game tells me are unbeatable and pulls me out of combat against feel totally manageable, like the dragon thing I fought last night. I experimented with full-auto on a whim, so all characters on AI control, and even then battles only last a few seconds longer on average than they would if I was still at the wheel. Heh. I may as well FFXII this thing.

I guess combat has never been something Tales has ever done particularly well and neither is it something people play Tales games for specifically, but I'd be 100% more likely to play another one after Berseria if they'd just throw out this whole system and start over. Throw out the horrible battle music along with it. Throw out the constant voiceline spam from four characters shouting names of moves out at once for no raisin. Throw out everything.

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Bier_Engel
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Bier_Engel » 2 weeks ago

Haha, yeah, and it gets real old after like, 75 hours of that shit. I took a lot of breaks during Berseria as well. I feel you on the attack announcements... who EVER thought that was a good idea, to announce your moves to your enemies?

Still looking forward to the Vesperia remake, but I feel that one had way better music, at least, and the battle system was a tad different.

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DHerder222
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by DHerder222 » 2 weeks ago

Is anyone here looking at DQXI? I thought was DQVIII was fine, but nothing hugely special. And since it's regularly touted as the best the series has ever produced, it's made me wonder if I'll ever truly enjoy the franchise.

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Flarecake
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Flarecake » 2 weeks ago

I've been playing Skyrim again....I created a character that looks like me (as best I could). I usually don't like to base characters off myself, so it's an experiment.

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Falcon Critical
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Falcon Critical » 2 weeks ago

I don't normally create self-sims either, in any game.. but I have occasionally just to mix it up.

I'm currently in a holding pattern waiting for Shadow of the Tomb Raider which comes out in like a week from now.

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Delthazar
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Delthazar » 2 weeks ago

Bier_Engel wrote:
2 weeks ago
I feel you on the attack announcements... who EVER thought that was a good idea, to announce your moves to your enemies?
Heh, I'm guessing this started in anime. Thankfully not every JRPG does it - maybe just Tales and Star Ocean and the recent Xeno things? But it's always bad, especially once all the voicelines start overlapping, plus all the usual grunts and groans, weapon SFX, blah blah blah.

Games like Berseria are loud in every sense of the word. A nonsensical audio-visual soup of shouts and damage numbers. I can't even imagine what it must look like to folks who've never played action-y JRPGs before, or video games in general.
DHerder222 wrote:
2 weeks ago
Is anyone here looking at DQXI? I thought was DQVIII was fine, but nothing hugely special. And since it's regularly touted as the best the series has ever produced, it's made me wonder if I'll ever truly enjoy the franchise.
I doubt I'll ever get into DQ games, so I'm right there with you. It always looks so... Basic-Ass JRPG Standard. If anything has changed about them since the NES aside from the technology, I'd never know it.

DQ and Tales feel like they're in a similar boat somehow. Anime JRPGs which rarely evolve in any meaningful way between instalments unless it's to (very) occasionally try something new with characterization or storytelling.

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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by DHerder222 » 2 weeks ago

Anime JRPGs which rarely evolve in any meaningful way between instalments unless it's to (very) occasionally try something new with characterization or storytelling.
My favorite series fitting that description is probably Ys. The games are never revolutionary and sometimes not even all that exciting, but their execution is often very well done.

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Bier_Engel
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Bier_Engel » 2 weeks ago

DHerder222 wrote:
2 weeks ago
Is anyone here looking at DQXI? I thought was DQVIII was fine, but nothing hugely special. And since it's regularly touted as the best the series has ever produced, it's made me wonder if I'll ever truly enjoy the franchise.
Never paid attention to that series. I got 8 as a gift once, and it felt so slow moving to me that I didn't get very far. If I remember correctly, I mailed it to TP a few years back.

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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by HunterF » 2 weeks ago

I'ma definately check out DQXI at some point. I actually liked VIII a lot, despite it being so fucking long. If you're curious about the game, hbi2K streams it sometimes. Maybe watch some of that to get an idea?


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Delthazar
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Delthazar » 2 weeks ago

Bier_Engel wrote:
2 weeks ago
Haha, yeah, and it gets real old after like, 75 hours of that shit. I took a lot of breaks during Berseria as well. I feel you on the attack announcements... who EVER thought that was a good idea, to announce your moves to your enemies?

Still looking forward to the Vesperia remake, but I feel that one had way better music, at least, and the battle system was a tad different.
I fought some big boss in Berseria last night, left the music on for a moment just to refresh my memory, since I usually have podcasts running instead unless story stuff is happening. My final judgement call: Tales battle music sounds like someone trying to make mid-2000s scandinavian power metal, but their instruments got stolen out of their van, so they had to use all synths.

But I guess that's kinda always been how Motoi Sakuraba rolls. Even all the way back in Star Ocean 2, the earliest OST of his I can remember, it was always a mix of good-to-great town/map/event themes and head-splitting unlistenable battle themes.

And if there's any remotely religious-themed antagonists they'll always have the loudest, most overwrought pipe organ jams you can get outside an actual church.
Spoiler :
Really glad Teresa and Oscar are both dead now so I don't have to hear those organs as often + anything with those two dumbasses was probably Berseria's character writing at its weakest, or close to it.

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Bier_Engel
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Bier_Engel » 1 week ago

Of the 3 new games I bought today, I popped in Tales of Xillia first. Really liking it, but yeah, battle theme is lacking. I will say that I could tell within 20 minutes that this is one of the stronger titles in the series, though. Already liking it more than the 2 PS4 entries, and I did like Berseria, despite its flaws. I'm liking Xillia better so far because: even though the party members so far weren't friends prior to the plot, they actually do seem to like each other and get along (i.e. no Magilou) and you get to choose between Milla or Jude as the main character. Not sure what difference that actually makes since their stories converge very early on, but Milla is like a proto-Velvet without being a complete edgelord. She's also not human (not a spoiler because that's revealed right away) but she likes people/her party despite being awkward, so that's a bit refreshing.

I also like the tweaks in the battle system. Again, this came first, but I'm liking the battle system here more than Zesteria and Berseria. Not as complicated or screen-breaking with too much going on. Voice acting seems a bit better as well, and I've yet to see a typo or closed captioning error. Berseria had way too much of those.
Spoiler :
Theresa and Oscar just creeped me out. They were way too incesty...

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Delthazar
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Delthazar » 1 week ago

Somewhere around 90% of the characters in these games being fashion disasters is another thing I'd like to see some improvement on in the future. :pac But that's a JRPG problem in general I guess. JRPG + anime styling + fantasy settings just means Tales is probably a little worse at it than most.

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Bier_Engel
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Bier_Engel » 1 week ago

YUP. So far, still only have 3 people, but I've seen at least one or two that may join. Milla is the only real fashion disaster so far in that her outfit is revealing, but not as bad as Velvet's.

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Delthazar
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Delthazar » 1 week ago

Pretty glad Berseria at least gives you Velvet's original villager costume right away. I've been using that almost the entire game. It looks like something a person might actually wear! Otherwise, the only good starter outfit in Berseria belongs to Eizen.

If I remember Vesperia correctly, Yuri had the only good default costume in that whole game, but I'll give half a point to Repede for his pipe and eyepatch. Good dog.

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Bier_Engel
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Bier_Engel » 1 week ago

I thought Eleanor and Rokurou had decent default costumes. In Vesperia, I liked Estelle's. Rita's was very plain, but at least it wasn't slutty.

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Delthazar
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Delthazar » 1 week ago

I've always disliked those big poofy dresses folks like Eleanor and Estelle always seem to get stuck wearing. It's a well-worn JRPG trope I guess, especially for mage or mage-adjacent characters, but like were they expecting their adventures to take 'em to some fancy ball, or



Eleanor looks pretty boss in the unlockable Exorcist outfit and pirate eyepatch. Rokurou's jacketless alternate + hat hair style + sunglasses works well. That weird 1920s-ish swimsuit you can get from expeditions is a straight upgrade over Magilou's default, but that's the lowest bar to clear fashion-wise. Add the top hat. I think I've had Laphicet in the waiter costume, aviators, and moustache for almost the whole game. Really takes the edge off some of those super self-serious cutscenes.
Bier_Engel wrote:
1 week ago
YUP. So far, still only have 3 people, but I've seen at least one or two that may join. Milla is the only real fashion disaster so far in that her outfit is revealing, but not as bad as Velvet's.
Heh, go figure
Spoiler :
I just ran into Milla and Jude while running some of the pre-endgame sidequests last night. Milla is absolutely on my fashion disaster list, and for my money I'd say her clothes are worse than Velvet's - at least with Velvet I can kinda buy what she's wearing as fitting with her personal theme of the edgy gives-no-shits goth demon teen who's probably too focused on her revenge quest to bother looking down and wouldn't really care even if she did

Milla though, I don't know her deal and I ain't about to play another Tales game right now to find out, but I'm guessing she ain't even got Velvet's flimsy excuses :pac Her hair also makes zero sense, at least out of context, but whatever - anime!
speaking of sidequest cleanup, I wonder how many of these I feel like doing/how many of these are worth doing. I'm only skimming over walkthroughs for starting locations and whatnot but it doesn't seem like there's anything on the same level of involvement as Vesperia's legendary weapons quests or whatever those were. Maybe I'll just run the character arc stuff and call it a day.

...I did find myself fighting Phoenix though. Easily the toughest/cheesiest battle I've seen in this game, and probably well beyond the remaining story stuff, too. I doubt I have another fight like that in me. Supposedly there's some Katz boss out there who's even worse? Eff that.

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Bier_Engel
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Bier_Engel » 1 week ago

Magilou's outfit is easily the worst.

I don't mind the fancy dresses since they're in a fantasy setting anyway, or maybe it's just because I wouldn't mind trying those sorts of dresses myself *¯\_(ツ)_/¯* Or perhaps, I'm just used to that shit in RPGs and don't mind it. Again, at least they're not slutty.

Real spoilers here, if you don't care about Milla:
Spoiler :
She's a spirit. So, she took a human form without really caring what it was, and of course, her male handmaid (yes, he's called that) picked the skirt, but she doesn't mind, because it's *so* easy to move around in! She's so non-human that it doesn't bother her! And also, the hair was styled by her wind spirit and she's proud of it. Sort of how Velvet was proud of her hair and the comb her brother gave her. So yeah, recurring theme with the hair.
Berseria's sidequests were tiresome in that there were so many, but yeah, most were just outfit rewards or story things. I think Phoenix is objectively the hardest boss, though. So if you beat him, you *should* be able to beat Katz/Turtlez stuff.

BUT, I beat those bosses in Berseria with minimal issues but could not even get CLOSE in Zesteria with the same bosses, so I guess it depends on your combat style...

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Delthazar
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Delthazar » 1 week ago

heh, my only combat style is mashmashmashmash + R2 to therion + mashmashmashmash + sometimes L2 to anime, repeat if necessary, because very little about how Berseria's combat works makes any sense to me and my old man brain and yet it's thankfully almost never hard enough to actually matter either

poor Milla looks like someone said to themselves, "boy, I sure was a big Tifa fan in the 90s, but how can we ~flash~ that costume up for hip young modern audiences? I KNOW! Bleach the hair, neon those highlights, and slap half a roll of black kinesio tape on her body"

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Bier_Engel
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Bier_Engel » 1 week ago

Same here with Bers. I thought Zesteria was hard in a lot of parts for me, combat-wise, but I don't think you've played that one? It's different. Also, don't bother.

Anddd yeah, spot on. Perfect example of a "strong female character" dressing that way, designed by a man, but, "hey, they're fictional brains like it so it's empowering!" (Even though other characters do make comments).

I do still overall like the game, though. Just met my final party member who is another Tales trope of the feisty teenage girl that always gets into trouble, but I like her this time.

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Delthazar
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Delthazar » 1 week ago

Bier_Engel wrote:
1 week ago
I thought Zesteria was hard in a lot of parts for me, combat-wise, but I don't think you've played that one? It's different. Also, don't bother.
Heh, that's 100% the advice I always see about these two games: play Berseria, read the Zesteria wiki.

At my pace, I play exactly one (1) Tales RPG every ten years, so I look forward to seeing what they have for me in 2028.

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Delthazar
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Delthazar » 1 week ago

That's a wrap on Berseria. Pretty sure I mopped up all the sidequests. You were right about the Turtlez boss, that was nothing compared to Phoenix. No idea why the sidequest walkthrough I followed played it up so much. I also jumped back in after the ending to finish some of the post-game stuff.
Spoiler :
The fight against Milla and Jude was a lot harder than Phoenix in my opinion. Had to retry that one. Knocked the difficulty down to Simple, too. Kinda just ran it for the cheevo.
Doubt I'll ever bother with the Heavenly Steppes extra dungeon thing.

Decent enough story, good characters, weird squirrelly combat, ehh soundtrack, art design all over the map as usual. It was a Tales, alright!

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Bier_Engel
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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by Bier_Engel » 1 week ago

Yeah, I think it was played up because the Turtlez in Zesteria was really hard (I never beat it). But again, different battle system is probably accountable for most of that difference.
Spoiler :
I don't even remember if I did the Jude and Milla fight... I think I fought them separately as those pengyon things, but I'm not sure if I finished the whole line of quests to fight them as humans.
I don't remember if I did the heavenly steppes or not... I just know that after 75 hours, I was done with that game, so I'm guessing no.

And I feel ya! Xillia is still fun but I am wishing for some of the PS4 improvements (quests showing up on the map, for example) but I also like some things better about the PS3 era Tales games.

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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by HunterF » 4 days ago

I may have to stop playing Lost Odyssey. It keeps kicking me in the feels.

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Re: CF-WRUP V: Good play. Nice talk.

Post by HunterF » 3 days ago